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13 October 2009 @ 02:43 pm
Girl Cooties  
evildrem and dejla both posted about this bit of stupidity earlier, and then a commenter over at Dejla's pointed out this in response. Most excellent.

And stealing from my own comment: So Bill Gates wouldn't have tinkered in his garage if he'd been forced to watch a female Starbuck? Is that about right?
pat: NF bridgepat_t on October 13th, 2009 08:50 pm (UTC)
Of coure he wouldn't have. And the world would end as we know it.
kimurhokimuro on October 13th, 2009 09:33 pm (UTC)
When I was in middle school one of my friends noticed a book I was carrying home and had the cajones to tell me I shouldn't be reading that, it was science fiction and science fiction was for boys. Ironically, it was by Andre Norton, and even more ironically, one of her witchworld series which I found rather lame.

I never walked home with that boy again.

The first science fiction book I read was The Star Beast by Robert Heinlein. - I loved his "boy scout" fiction, thought his later stuff was kind of male fantasy creepy. At that, he was light-years better at creating female characters than Isaac Asimov. Susan Calvin almost turned me off science entirely {shudder}.

OTOH, I agree that what Bonnie wazzername did to the SciFi channel was a crime. It's not worth watching anymore - except when they put on programmes from BBC.
dejladejla on October 13th, 2009 09:43 pm (UTC)
I never liked any of Heinlein's female characters, so there we differ. And the fact that Andre Norton had female characters I could identify with got me to read more science fiction--which I had given up on because it was all about boys and I wanted to read about girls like me. Probably what drove me into mysteries, which I still read with delight.

I read less science fiction these days, and that's sad, and I don't know why, really...
(no subject) - agilebrit on October 13th, 2009 11:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
dejladejla on October 13th, 2009 09:40 pm (UTC)
You bet. He'd have tinkered in his garage no matter what.
tygermama: feminismtygermama on October 13th, 2009 10:17 pm (UTC)
did you read any of the other post titles on that jackass's blog? I shuddered. Pro-Male/Anti-Feminist Tech I just have no words for this...

(well, the words are all well represented by @$^*$@!%^$^%$^!@%$%^$&&)

And I really really want to marry John Scalzi right now. :D

*hugs Space: The Imagination Station tight*

Edit: well, I proposed to Scalzi over Twitter, he said his wife said he can't marry me. :(

Edited at 2009-10-13 11:42 pm (UTC)
tpena19tpena19 on October 15th, 2009 03:53 am (UTC)
lmao, what a mean wife.
Becca: Captain Jack/9 by beccadgbeccadg on October 13th, 2009 10:38 pm (UTC)
While I appreciate John Scalzi's mocking of the misogyny of the original blog post, I'm a little disappointed by his only acknowledgment of the homophobia in the original post being in the lines, "except the gays, who are just like girls anyway (and whose testicles frighten me)." I'm use to pointing and laughing at the misogyny in the original post. I hated the New Battlestar Galactica making Starbuck a girl so I have a certain amount of sympathy for people who don't like it, even homophobic MCPs. I don't appreciate and am less familiar at dealing with the homophobia. I would've liked to see him address it further.
I Am the Bad Wolfjerel on October 14th, 2009 01:46 am (UTC)
I think people objected to girl!Starbuck not because they don't want to see women in science fiction, because darn it, Starbuck is male! If they wanted that kind of character, fine, but they didn't have to call her Starbuck. That name has been taken. :)
catyuycatyuy on October 13th, 2009 10:52 pm (UTC)
Its sad that some men feel like this.

When I was in high school I found out some of these guys were playing RPGs. I was intrigued and one of them let me borrow a book. But when I asked if I could play with them I was informed that the other guys didn't think I was serious.
Thus I was discouraged.

I still have problems feeling secure enough to find a RPG as most guys look at me like I shouldn't be asking to play.
tygermamatygermama on October 13th, 2009 11:40 pm (UTC)
I used to play RPG's and still would if I had time. If you're interested, go down to your local game store, if the guys there are any good, they won't care that you're female and help you out. A lot of stores have bulletin boards with ads, "Looking for game" or "Looking for players" I found a group through that once, they were nice guys.

If they don't, find a different store. Don't give up! It's great fun.

(no subject) - catyuy on October 14th, 2009 12:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ninjababe on October 14th, 2009 12:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - tpena19 on October 15th, 2009 03:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
I will call her George: SG1 - Crazy Talkstrangevisitor7 on October 14th, 2009 12:49 am (UTC)
The whole idea that Sci Fi for boys only cracks me up. I think that Syfy has done women a great disservice by implying that we don't like straight up science fiction - and perpetuating the idea that we are no tech oriented. I personally didn't like BSG (though I did like the idea of a female starbuck) and am really unhappy that Stargate Atlantis was canceled so that the BSG version of stargate SGU replaced it.

The guy who wrote that article is a misogynistic homophobe who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
pezgirl7: ezra gunpezgirl7 on October 14th, 2009 05:15 am (UTC)
SGU is SO BSG! Well at least that was my take, even though I've only seen a few eps of BSG. I miss all the fun and snark from the first 2 SG series. I miss Sheppard and McKay. :(

I agree that sci-fi has changed and now has elements that are geared towards women, but to suggest that women should't be watching, or that men won't be inspired to become engineers is just plain lame. Even if it were true, then you could say more women will be inspired to become engineers! \o/
(no subject) - strangevisitor7 on October 14th, 2009 01:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - tpena19 on October 15th, 2009 03:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - pezgirl7 on October 17th, 2009 10:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
wyntereyez: General - Evil Kittywyntereyez on October 14th, 2009 12:51 am (UTC)
Wow... I think I need to take some time off from the internet, because it seems like everyone is intent on pissing me off lately. First I read an article that says Real Women wouldn't be attracted to 'skinny, pretty, girlish pin-ups' like Johnny Depp and David Tennant (two of my favorite actors) unless they're on hormone-altering drugs (so I'm not a Real Woman, apparently), and now this POS about my favorite genre! It makes me want to scream.

So, he's basically saying that when men wrote it it was about the science fiction and when women wrote it it was all emotional dreck and idealized men? Has he ever read any of this so-called superior male sci fi where the men were all super-intelligent muscular hunks and the women were big-chested and submissive? No, no idealization there. It's all about the science with male writers *rolls eyes* Wonder if he ever even noticed that a number of award winning sf writers from that era were women?

I suddenly appreciate my Dad more. He may occasionally have some notions about women that make me want to smack him upside the head, but he never once saw anything odd about his daughter enjoying science fiction. Clearly, not all men think it's a man's domain.

And maybe it's another sign that I'm not a Real Woman that I prefer my science fiction to have science and aliens and strange new worlds rather than romantic entanglements.
tygermama: FG - Epictygermama on October 15th, 2009 04:53 am (UTC)
Oooo! You read that story too? Is The Pill Giving Geeks An Unfair Chance? About Women who are on the birth-control pill may be more likely to pick provider types over aggressive, masculine specimens – a course that could potentially affect the health of their children, according to a controversial new paper from the University of Sheffield.

And it's based on tracking the tips of 18 strippers through two menstrual periods. That's how you know it's GOOD science.

I had to call a friend to bitch about that piece of news.
(no subject) - wyntereyez on October 15th, 2009 10:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
I Am the Bad Wolf: donnabitchplsjerel on October 14th, 2009 01:55 am (UTC)
SyFy is turning off both male and female viewers, because (with a few exceptions), they are producing crap. I tend to be more interested in social sci-fi--I love a good dystopia or post-apocalyptic world--but what they are offering as an alternative to the hard sci-fi is not the exploration of the human condition; it's the false drama you get from soap operas. At least soaps don't pretend to be realistic. Of course in sci-fi you have to have some suspension of disbelief. But if I want Days of Our Lives in Space, I'll put on my dark glasses and make ray gun noises while I watch TV.

Edited at 2009-10-14 01:55 am (UTC)
I will call her George: Atlantis Gunsstrangevisitor7 on October 14th, 2009 01:51 pm (UTC)
But if I want Days of Our Lives in Space, I'll put on my dark glasses and make ray gun noises while I watch TV

I actually love this image because you are so right. They have taken bad soap opera - and by setting it on a space ship they think that makes it SciFi ...ooops I mean SYFY
(no subject) - tpena19 on October 15th, 2009 03:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
Black Wolfdet_munch on October 14th, 2009 02:55 am (UTC)
meh to him is what I say! I am not a huge Science Fiction fan, but I do enjoy it. I do think that women are more into the relationship aspects/story lines more than men but I certainly don't think they're all into it/that is all they're into. I know I am not, I don't like when shows are all about the relationship, and I do like a good love a good fight scene, but it's about a balance for me, you know? While I don't like shows that are all about the relationships/romance I also don't like ones that are all pointless violence and fight scenes. And quite frankly what this author describes as traditional science fiction sounds horribly boring and BS. I have read/seen some science fiction and took a class in college and it does not sound like what he described, I don't think any well written science fiction is just about men doing stuff and fighting.
quicksilverjenquicksilverjen on October 14th, 2009 03:43 pm (UTC)
"Science fiction traditionally is about men doing things, inventing new technologies, exploring new worlds, making new scientific discoveries, terraforming planets, etc."

Oh, good GAWD! FICTION in general, indeed most of human HISTORY, is "traditionally ... about men doing things, inventing new technologies, exploring new worlds, making new scientific discoveries."

Doesn't mean it's right to continue to exclude half the human race.

And if he's correct about men wanting real science in their scifi, while women want more supernatural, paranormal, relationship "stuff," then I'm a man and my husband is a woman.

And since I was the one who actually gave birth to our kids, I'm fairly certain that's not true.
quicksilverjenquicksilverjen on October 14th, 2009 04:19 pm (UTC)
Not to mention, if my boys do grow up pursue careers in science or engineering or technology, I'm fairly certain it will be in large part because I helped them with their math and science homework.
(no subject) - tpena19 on October 15th, 2009 04:00 am (UTC) (Expand)
tpena19tpena19 on October 15th, 2009 04:08 am (UTC)
Oh My. What a total misinformed hater that dude is, does he not realize (or just not care) how his little rant makes him look? Like an unintelligent, prejudiced, loser (who probably never gets laid).

The response was pretty cool, the point and laugh thing was spot on. Though from this post I got the idea that he neither was much into bi or gay characters, but didn't condone bashing.

I have always loved sci-fi and fantasy writing and never much cared whether the author was male or female, as long as they could write well.

Though I do have to agree with everyone who says the 'syfy' channel has now turned almost all to crap, and if it is the fault of a feminist being in charge and trying to womanize (and just WHOSE idea of womanly likes are we using here?!) all the programming, I say we get rid of her.