?

Log in

No account? Create an account
 
 
25 May 2006 @ 08:18 am
'The Messenger'  
Welcome to the eleventh installment of Methos Episode discussion. You can find the last one, for 'Judgement Day/One Minute to Midnight' here. All episode discussion links can be found over on the sidebar.

The Messenger, Air Date: Nov. 1996

Richie's found a new teacher: an Immortal who preaches a message of peace. An Immortal who believes that all Immortals can lay down their swords and live together as brothers. An Immortal who claims to be the oldest of their kind still alive -- Methos. Will laying down his sword in the name of peace mean Richie will lose his head? And what does this mean for the friend MacLeod already calls Methos?. ~ recap and quotes via tv.com


Next up will be The Valkyrie. Look for it on Monday.

Quotes below the curtain





*from the extended scene*
Methos: Okay, there's this Spanish guy, Alejandro Diego Spinofa...one day he gets called in by the Inquisition for questioning, red hot pincers, tongs, usual drill...now, all he has to do is say no, 'kay, very simple word. They take his home, his money, his lands, but he will not give in.
Joe: So what happened?
Methos: He died screaming in agony. But he kept his integrity.
Joe: You are one calculated son of a bitch.
Methos: Thank you very much, it's just a matter of anticipation.
Joe: Really...well have one on me. (pours his drink on Methos' head)
Methos: What the hell was that for?!
Joe: Just one of those unforseen dilemmas. I'm surprised you didn't ancitipate it.
________________________

Methos: Look, there are enough people out there who want my head for who I am. Now, I say, if he wants to play Methos let him.
Duncan: Even if it gets him killed?
Methos: Yeah. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Look at these boots. What happened to craftsmanship? I only put a thousand miles in them.
________________________

Duncan: Do you really think peace between us was possible.
Richie: I'd like to think so.
Duncan: Would have been nice.
Richie: You know, I don't even know what his real name was. I mean, I know he wasn't the real Methos. Maybe he wasn't right either, but he was a good man.
Methos: Listen, I'm sorry I disappointed you, kid.
Richie: That's okay.
Methos: Later.
Richie: Old timer, you got any words of wisdom for me?
Methos: Nope.
________________________

(about Richie)
Duncan: Well, it's his (mistake) to make. It's about integrity.
Methos: Okay, there's this Spanish guy: Alejandro Diego Spinofa. One day he gets called in by the inquisition for questioning, red hot pincers, tongs, usual drill. Now, all he has to do is say no, 'kay, very simple word. They take his home, his money, his lands, but he will not give in.
Joe: And so what happened?
Methos: He died screaming in agony. But he kept his integrity.
________________________

Fake Methos: Can anyone live for five thousand years and say they did nothing, risked nothing, merely stayed alive? It'd be pointless.
Methos: Some might think that that experience is worth saving.
Fake Methos: I'm not one of them, but we can talk about it.
Methos: No, I've got a prior engagement, I'm afraid.
Fake Methos: I, uh, didn't catch your name.
Methos: No, that's right, you didn't.
________________________

Joe: I'm gonna go check on this other Methos. Maybe I'll turn something up.
Methos: Maybe I'll go and buy some socks.
________________________

Methos: But it's got such a nice ring to it. No more fighting, no more killing, peace and harmony - don't tell me you never fantasized about that? Some young sucker's always gonna fall for it.
Duncan: Richie has.
Methos: Voila.
________________________

(talking about the fake Methos)
Duncan: I thought you were out wandering the world.
Methos: Tibet...yak butter plays hell with the digestion. Besides, I've had all the enlightenment I could use.
Duncan: Maybe you should've kept it to yourself.
Methos: Sorry, I must have dosed off. What is it we're talking about?
________________________

Methos: One speech from the wise one and you forgive Culbraith - what's next? Friendship bracelets? The Love Boat?
Duncan: I didn't forgive him, (the other Methos) just made me think.
Methos: (cocky) Ooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh, just don't think too long.
________________________

Duncan: Turning the other cheek will only get you slapped harder.
Methos: Has a nice ring to it, though.
________________________

Methos: Hey, grab a beer. There's a cold one in the fridge.
Duncan: I know - my fridge.
________________________

Joe: (Richie's) young...young people make mistakes.
Methos: Yeah, look at disco.
________________________

Joe: I did some checking on this (fake) Methos flake. (Duncan and Real Methos look at him) The other one.
________________________

Messenger: Can anyone live for 5,000 years and say they did nothing? Risked nothing? Merely stayed alive? It'd be pointless.
Methos: Some might think that that experience was worth saving.




 
 
 
Ith: Tea Ladyithildyn on May 25th, 2006 04:35 pm (UTC)
This is one of my favourite episodes. I love what I call 'Aesop Methos', and the snark just flows in this one. And Ron Perlman, who's great in this. For me, the storyline between Culbraith and Duncan takes a back seat to the Methos/Fake Methos one.

I've always figured that the fake Methos was the reason Kronos found the real one not much later.
enchantersnightenchantersnight on May 25th, 2006 06:58 pm (UTC)
"I've always figured that the fake Methos was the reason Kronos found the real one not much later." ohh I didn't think of that.

I really liked this one especially Richie's reaction to the Real Methos, the Culbraith and Duncan storyline was very good too (maybe helped by the visiting of Gettysburg recently and a general interest in the Civil War)

basically anything with Methos wandering around will do it (shallow I know) I loved the scene between the Real and Fake Methos very "out there"
(no subject) - ithildyn on May 25th, 2006 08:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sophiedb on May 25th, 2006 09:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Episode - (Anonymous) on May 25th, 2006 09:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - eveningblue on May 25th, 2006 10:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ithildyn on May 25th, 2006 10:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - eveningblue on May 25th, 2006 10:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ithildyn on May 25th, 2006 10:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - eveningblue on May 25th, 2006 10:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ekaterinn on May 25th, 2006 11:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on May 26th, 2006 01:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on May 26th, 2006 01:58 am (UTC) (Expand)
Ekaterinn: duncan and horse (by beeej)ekaterinn on May 25th, 2006 09:37 pm (UTC)
I love Methos's insistance on not dispensing (much) wisdom and his sense of pragmatism in letting the fake Methos take the heat for him. We also see that his wrist is blank, evidence of the fact that he has indeed cut his ties to the Watchers after Joe's trial and the death of Jacob Galati.

This episode also highlights one of the themes of the series as a whole: the general wish of Duncan (and most of his friends) to live a peaceful life - and the immpossibilty of doing so.
eveningblue: Methos Oh Reallyeveningblue on May 25th, 2006 10:17 pm (UTC)
I love Methos's insistance on not dispensing (much) wisdom and his sense of pragmatism in letting the fake Methos take the heat for him.

Yes, I agree. Methos's way of "dispensing wisdom" seems to be telling stories from his past. Like the Christians and the lions story he tells in "Finale." His wisdom, what there is of it, comes through his stories.

(no subject) - ithildyn on May 25th, 2006 10:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
"I am very old and wise." - ekaterinn on May 25th, 2006 11:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: "I am very old and wise." - ekaterinn on May 25th, 2006 11:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
eveningblue: Methoseveningblue on May 25th, 2006 10:23 pm (UTC)

I love this episode, as you know from my recent discussion about the bed scene.

Here's a question: when Joe goes to "check on fake Methos," and then comes back to say fake-M has left a trail of dead Immortals behind him, where does Joe get this information? It's confusing, because how would the Watchers know this Methos was a fake, if they didn't know who he really was? Also, wouldn't Duncan have been hip to the fact that there was a fake-M if Joe knew about it? This confuses me, and seems like a plot hole.
Ith: Blue Girlithildyn on May 25th, 2006 10:29 pm (UTC)
I love this episode, as you know from my recent discussion about the bed scene.

I remember! That was a lot of fun.

Here's a question: when Joe goes to "check on fake Methos," and then comes back to say fake-M has left a trail of dead Immortals behind him, where does Joe get this information? It's confusing, because how would the Watchers know this Methos was a fake, if they didn't know who he really was?

Dang! You know, I never thought about that! It's like my "how did Stephen Keane know Mac killed Sean" tick [g] Hmmm...
(no subject) - ekaterinn on May 25th, 2006 11:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - eveningblue on May 25th, 2006 11:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ekaterinn on May 26th, 2006 12:02 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ithildyn on May 26th, 2006 12:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - pat_t on May 30th, 2006 11:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ithildyn on May 30th, 2006 04:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - pat_t on May 30th, 2006 07:06 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ithildyn on May 30th, 2006 07:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - pat_t on May 30th, 2006 07:20 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ithildyn on May 30th, 2006 07:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - unovis on May 26th, 2006 11:29 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on May 26th, 2006 03:10 pm (UTC) (Expand)
eveningblueeveningblue on May 26th, 2006 12:50 am (UTC)
Something else I've been meaning to ask about this episode: what the hell is Methos doing to his boots? What kind of tool is it that he gets out of his knapsack? I have never done repair work on my hiking boots so I have no idea what he's doing!

Unovisunovis on May 26th, 2006 11:31 am (UTC)
It's a small pliers. He seems to be fiddling with a nail, either part of the sole or something sticking in the boot.
Laurie odell: dmprofilescyberducks on May 26th, 2006 12:51 am (UTC)
Great Methos eppie! I think quite a few Methos themes often used in fic come from this eppie.

The only weak part for me was Ron Pearlman as the fake Methos - he really didn't impress me with his acting in this one - he seemed to be phoning it in.
Unovis: Methos blueunovis on May 26th, 2006 11:34 am (UTC)
Yeah -- even before the commentaries, his perfomance struck me as awfully flat. He didn't seem compelling enough to be Methos or to attract even lame-brain Richie to follow him. During the confrontation with Methos he only seemed half there. A pity, because it was a part someone could have injected real life into.
eveningblue: Methoseveningblue on May 26th, 2006 02:04 am (UTC)
Oh, one more thing I wanted to mention!

I noticed how he pronounced the Spanish name, Alejandro Diego Spinoza, with a very distinct Spanish accent. This is in sharp contrast to the way he says "Mi casa es su casa" in "Methos," not even really trying to make it sound right.

Methos is supposed to be this great chameleon, right, so if he'd ever lived in Spain he'd be able to do a perfect accent. Isn't he also supposed to be a language expert?

It always jars me that he doesn't pronounce "Mi casa es su casa" properly, and I wonder if this was a deliberate attempt to somehow correct that.

(I'm sure we could come up with some fanficcy reasons for the discrepency.)
Unovisunovis on May 26th, 2006 11:38 am (UTC)
Almost all the accents and readings in foreign languages other than French in the show are horrible (Adrian Paul's, outstandingly -- his Russian and German and Scots are dreadful). It's just one of those things in this show you have to blink away, like the magically appearing katanas and the lack of blood.

[heh, rash of comments because I just came across this, compiling links]
(no subject) - keerawa on May 30th, 2006 07:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - pat_t on May 30th, 2006 11:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
keerawakeerawa on May 30th, 2006 07:10 am (UTC)
I think my favorite part of this episode is when Richie, Methos, Joe and MacLeod are chatting in the bar.

Richie asks why the fake Methos would offer him his head. MacLeod says, "Because he was afraid to fight you!" Methos offers from his bar stool, "Or maybe he knew you wouldn't take it."
pat: ruthlesspat_t on May 30th, 2006 12:03 pm (UTC)
Okay - do I have time before work to comment? First I see in the above quote that when Joe says:"I did some checking on this Methos flake." You then say Duncan and Methos look at him. Nope. Go look at the scene again. Joe and Duncan give Methos a look when Joe says "Methos flake' and then Joe clarifies "the othe one."
lol, it really was funny in an off-handed subtle way.


I have to agree that I didn't think Ron gave his best performance. I didn't feel as strongly as David A, but then David wrote the script with a very specific type of person in mind. And to him Ron did not deliver the character he had created on paper. I would have a hard time believing other Immortals putting down their swords to follow this man. He lacked the charisma needed for people to follow him.

One of the things I noticed and loved about this episode was Methos and how *his* reaction to the guy changed.

In the first scene he was very cool and treating it very casually. Talking about flattery and how it saved his head if people thought someone else was Methos. How his name doesn't have a "patent" on it. And was basically yanking Duncan's chain the whole time.

Then after meeting the guy and after the guy got under his skin with the "do nothing" comment - Methos' entire attitude changed. Oh he was hot then that this *fake* was out there pretending to be him. He was in Joe's ranting and raving and talking about the Love Boat and irritating the snot out of both Duncan and Joe.

A complete turn around in his feelings and reactions. To me this was one of those moments into the *real* Methos and his feelings and reactions. That guy got him where he lived. And sarcastic Methos was hot hot hot. Personally, if whats his name hadn't killed fake Methos, I think the real Methos would have run into him later when Duncan would have been none the wiser.

And speaking of Culbreth - was that not the lamest back story you've ever seen? They should have put it and the motorcycle scenes together in one show and then trashed it for the complete dreg that it was.
Ith: From Hellithildyn on May 30th, 2006 04:34 pm (UTC)
A complete turn around in his feelings and reactions. To me this was one of those moments into the *real* Methos and his feelings and reactions. That guy got him where he lived. And sarcastic Methos was hot hot hot. Personally, if whats his name hadn't killed fake Methos, I think the real Methos would have run into him later when Duncan would have been none the wiser.

[nods] I agree, it was one of those 'real Methos' moments, with a hint of what we would see a few episodes later. He does cold like nobody's business.

And speaking of Culbreth - was that not the lamest back story you've ever seen? They should have put it and the motorcycle scenes together in one show and then trashed it for the complete dreg that it was.

Yeah, that part of the ep didn't do anything for me.