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01 March 2007 @ 09:43 am
The Black Donnellys  
I did watch the pilot when I saw that it was Paul Haggis show, being a big Due South fan and all. I guess you could say it's an Irish version of the Sopranos, except on network TV. Like Due South, it utilizes music really well (great mix of music in the pilot) , and it looked a lot like Due South as far as the lighting and sets. Did I like it? I liked it well enough to watch it next week, but I'm not head over heels for it. It's not really my cup of tea as far as the genre with all the violence and the leads being criminals. But the characters were engaging. So I'll give it another shot next week.

Oh, and on a totally unrelated note, the term Black Irish -- the show used it exactly like an Irish friend of mine explained back when I was a teenager. So I was right. I'd used the term in fanfic I'd written, and someone commented that it didn't mean what I thought it meant, so not being sure after that, I removed the reference. I should have left it in. If it's good enough for Paul Haggis... [g]

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Roberta: HL Sourcerobi_travels on March 1st, 2007 05:45 pm (UTC)
"Black Irish"

So explain. How should it be used? Here in Boston it has a meanings, just wondering if it is the same?

Roberta
Ith: Art - Callanishithildyn on March 1st, 2007 09:36 pm (UTC)
See all the comments after yours.
Roberta: Holby _ Dan Cuterobi_travels on March 1st, 2007 11:43 pm (UTC)
Thanks. Actually the comments are exactly as it was used here in Boston, South Boston to be exact.

The Black Irish where dark haired, non-freckled skinned Irish as opposed to the red / blond freckled Irish of lure. Occasionally I have heard the Black Irish also called "Irish Colleen". I allway equated it to a "Dark Scot".

Roberta
Ith: Art - Dancersithildyn on March 1st, 2007 11:54 pm (UTC)
Never heard of a dark Scot, and I am Scottish LOL.

So it would seem 'Black Irish' is a fairly standard North America/Ireland concept. I'm going to put it back into my story! Well, one day when I get around to it.
She went that-a-way...jinxed_wood on March 1st, 2007 07:30 pm (UTC)
'Black Irish' as in someone with very Spanish looks? That's how it was used in the area of Ireland I grew up in anyway - historically speaking they are a lot of people from the west of Ireland with these features due to the huge amount of Spanish/Spanish slaves that were washed up on the western shores after the sinking of the Spanish Armada...
She went that-a-way...jinxed_wood on March 1st, 2007 07:42 pm (UTC)
And, you know, after posting this, I googled the net and came up with a few articles that said the opposite of this. I did note that there was a lot of talk about the lack of Spanish survivors but absolutely no mention of the Black African slaves who oared the ships.

All I can say with any great veracity is that, when I was growing up, this was the common usage for this phrase. Also, this phrase is used often in the west of Ireland, but not so much in the east

I grew up in Kerry, in case you were wondering.

Ith: Art - Callanishithildyn on March 1st, 2007 07:58 pm (UTC)
That's exactly the same thing I grew up hearing. That it was the dark haired, dark eyed Irish that were the descendants of either Spanish Armada survivors or the original dark haired Celts. So when I wrote my Grey's fic, I referred to Derek as having Black Irish good looks. Afterwards, a reader told me it meant someone who was a present day African immigrant to Ireland. So I took the reference out.

So when the characters on the TV show last night described themselves that way, I felt vindicated [g]
Fides: cluebusfides on March 1st, 2007 08:05 pm (UTC)
I think your reader was speaking from a position of ignorance.
Ith: Grey's - Seriouslyithildyn on March 1st, 2007 08:09 pm (UTC)
Well she did point me to some website that backed her up [g] And I was insecure enough writing my first fic in a new fandom in years (albeit with Methos) that I decided to remove the reference.
She went that-a-way...jinxed_wood on March 1st, 2007 09:28 pm (UTC)
Afterwards, a reader told me it meant someone who was a present day African immigrant to Ireland.

Well, in my experience, Africans in Ireland rarely refer to themselves as black (um, in fact, I've never heard an African in Ireland call themselves black, maybe because they thought it a bit too self evident!). They usually refer to themselves by their country of origin - I'm Nigerian, Somalian, etc...
Ith: Art - Forest Quillithildyn on March 1st, 2007 09:35 pm (UTC)
Had I known you at the time last year,you would have been the first person i asked [g]
wickedstepmawickedstepma on March 3rd, 2007 04:35 am (UTC)
Both of my brothers were always described as Black Irish.
Dark hair and blue eyes with fair skin. I'd never heard it used
in reference actual black people who are Irish. Interesting.
dejladejla on March 1st, 2007 09:43 pm (UTC)
That's what I always heard referred to as Black Irish -- very white skin, dark hair, and often blue eyes. Lewis Collins, for instance, when he was young.

But people have a tendency to reinvent terms and someone probably borrowed the term and redefined it.