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07 January 2007 @ 03:47 pm
Ianto Musings  
You know, something I've been pondering the last few months as I've been watching Torchwood is what if Ianto were female? My thinking is that the very things his fans like about him, they'd hate if he was a she. To me, it seems that he has a lot of characteristics that female characters are frequently bashed for in fandom.

[runs and hides from the legions of Ianto fans]

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kimurhokimuro on January 8th, 2007 12:03 am (UTC)
Aint it the truth? Female characters have a much harder time in fandom. I've always suspected it is rank jealousy from the fans because they aren't them.
Ith: Highlander - Amanda: Flirtithildyn on January 8th, 2007 08:37 pm (UTC)
They do seem to. Held to a much different standard. At least by female fans.
100% Running With Scissorsviridian on January 8th, 2007 12:22 am (UTC)
I think that's why I couldn't care less about Ianto. He doesn't have much of a personality, really.
Ith: Art - Callanishithildyn on January 8th, 2007 08:36 pm (UTC)
Love your icon!

I still think he's plotting his revenge [g]
Fides: Torchwood Bingo Winnerfides on January 8th, 2007 12:22 am (UTC)
I've considered that myself a time ot two. I think that if Ianto was a girl I probably wouldn't like the Jack/Ianto relationship because part of the fun is that it isn't the standard sf lead male/f relationship (although oddly the more it becomes canon the less I care whether they are actually shagging because the care/support/duty aspects are what are calling me. Maybe I am just contrary, if they weren't including the canon hints I'd probably care about whether they were boiking).

However as long as the female version of Ianto had all his redeeming features as well then I think I would still like her. I love Tosh, for example, and I think she is actually very close to being a female version of Ianto. There strengths and weaknesses fall in very similar ways. Most Ianto fans I know also love Tosh as well for what it is worth.

Don't hide, it is an interesting point to think about.
Ith: Grey's - Kate Walshithildyn on January 8th, 2007 08:35 pm (UTC)
(although oddly the more it becomes canon the less I care whether they are actually shagging because the care/support/duty aspects are what are calling me. Maybe I am just contrary, if they weren't including the canon hints I'd probably care about whether they were boiking).

Now that I find very interesting! I wonder if that's part of what I hear other people call 'Moonlighting Syndrome' (they talk about it on my House email list a lot)? That once the couple with the UST gets together, the fans lose interest and the pairing loses its spark.

Don't hide, it is an interesting point to think about.

I'm glad.
(no subject) - fides on January 8th, 2007 10:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ithildyn on January 8th, 2007 10:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fides on January 9th, 2007 12:21 am (UTC) (Expand)
Shannon the I Just Get These Headaches: Doctor Dancesshannonsequitur on January 8th, 2007 12:35 am (UTC)
I haven't seen any Torchwood yet -- I inadvertently spoiled myself for bits of the finale, but apart from that, I've done a pretty remarkable job of avoiding spoilers -- so I can't say anything about Ianto, but I've interestingly enough seen the same comment made about Jack. Female characters never get any breaks, do they?

From my limited experience in DW fandom, there seems to be a lot less female character bashing than in other fandoms. Classic series fans completely aside, I know that there are a good few people who don't like Rose, but in any other fandom, most of the fanficcers would be falling over themselves to kill her off so the Doctor and Jack can hook up. *G*
Ith: Japan -  Lady Readingithildyn on January 8th, 2007 08:32 pm (UTC)
The last time I was actively involved in DW fandom was before the advent of the internet [g]

Really looking forward to the new Companion!
(no subject) - fides on January 8th, 2007 10:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
dejladejla on January 8th, 2007 01:09 am (UTC)
Well, as my father would have said, 'you're preaching to the choir here'.
Ith: Art - Wildwoodithildyn on January 8th, 2007 08:29 pm (UTC)
Heh!
(Deleted comment)
Ith: Art - Lily Pondithildyn on January 8th, 2007 08:29 pm (UTC)
My continuing problem with TW has been I just don't care much about any of them and wouldn't mind if they replaced the entire team next season [g] Tosh is kind of growing on me, but that's about it.
(Deleted comment)
Maybe I'm the plucky comic relief...?: Pulp - Tell Mommyagentxpndble on January 8th, 2007 01:48 am (UTC)
While I see what you're getting at, it's not true for *me*... If Ms. Moneypenny wanted to bend me over the conference table, I'd be just as thrilled. I think she's just as sexy and attractive for almost all the same, specific reasons I do Ianto.

Besides, it's the slight bit of fem in a guy that's the interesting edge that makes him so. If he were a she, he wouldn't... Well... Be. If you know what I mean.
Ith: Media - All My Jacksithildyn on January 8th, 2007 08:27 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I think I get what you mean :) Myself, I don't really find fem guys appealing, and was much happier with the Jack/Jack pairing.
Laurie odellcyberducks on January 8th, 2007 02:10 am (UTC)
If Ianto was female how many fans would be saying that Jack has been sexually harrassing the "secretary" and ogling Ianto's ass? But since this is Jack doing the ogling, it's not sexual harrassment it's delightful flirting. By the way, I am not being sarcastic, if it was me instead of Ianto Jack could have whatever he wanted from me.

I think in the end it comes down to the fact that some fans just find slash ships more attractive than most het ships. In slash it's easier to do an emotional relationship between two characters one likes without falling into romance novel territory - which is a common critiscims dumped on het fic.

But I am having a hard time imagining Ianto as a girl. For all the blubbering he did in Cyberwoman he seems very male to me.
Unovisunovis on January 8th, 2007 03:56 am (UTC)
Have to agree with you here. The only interesting thing Ianto has going for him is his sex and his appearance. He's a quiet, physically attractive man. I can't imagine him as a woman because there's not much there to work with -- in a way, he's playing a [traditional] woman's part because his gender is his identity, as far as plot and character is concerned.

Why would he be bashed, anyway? He seems like a sweet guy. He's been through his bit of hell, but he's still there. Why would he be bashed if he were a woman?
(no subject) - sophiedb on January 8th, 2007 12:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - unovis on January 8th, 2007 02:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ithildyn on January 8th, 2007 08:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - unovis on January 8th, 2007 09:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ithildyn on January 8th, 2007 09:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ithildyn on January 8th, 2007 08:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ithildyn on January 8th, 2007 08:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
macgeorge1macgeorge1 on January 8th, 2007 06:29 pm (UTC)
One of the very best things about Torchwood is that they have been deliberately coy in revealing things about the characters. Ianto is, in his own way, even more enigmatic than Captain Jack. There is so much to be known there, clearly, but he has it all locked up inside.

However, from what we actually have seen of Ianto, he's not particularly likable, frankly. He's a dour, repressed control freak with little (if any) sense of humor. Male or female, those aren't endearing characteristics.

But I really haven't been involved in the fandom, to date, because typical fandom reactions drive me screaming from the room. Yes, if Ianto were female, he would be the object of fannish hate because he was a direct rival for Jack's 'love' (in the somewhat warped perspective of girly fans). All the female characters' characteristics (good or bad) are typically judged in their worst light, which shouldn't surprise anyone. Women are almost always much harder on other women than they are on men. That's not just a fannish reality, it's just one of life's realities that, like everything, gets even more magnified in the world of fandom.
Ith: Japan - Pink Ladyithildyn on January 8th, 2007 08:18 pm (UTC)
I'm not involved in the fandom either -- or at least what for me is being involved in a fandom. No email lists, no fic, don't discuss it on related websites/comms/boards. I just like to talk about it casually here and with other friends.
(no subject) - unovis on January 8th, 2007 09:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)